Seth Heine.

With what environmental organizations are you affiliated?

I’m the president of CollectiveGood and RIPMobile.com — mobile phone recyclers.

What do your organizations do? What, in a perfect world, would constitute “mission accomplished”?

CollectiveGood recycles mobile devices (phones, pagers, PDAs) and all of their related accessories, usually in partnerships with charities, companies, and/or governments. We also just launched a new division, RIPMobile.com, which buys used mobile phones directly from the public, paying people for their phones in the form of content (music downloads, ring tones) or gift certificates from companies like Circuit City — making recycling fun and rewarding for young people.

Some 550 million used mobile phones in the U.S. are waiting to go into landfills. Only about 1 percent of what is out there is being collected and recycled right now, and the environmental consequences of hundreds of millions of phones going into the garbage can rather than being recycled are severe — hundreds of thousands of tons of toxic waste (mobile phones contain lead, cadmium, mercury, beryllium, arsenic, and much more) are threatening our food and water supplies.

Our programs help protect the environment from these toxins and make us less dependent on strip mining the earth for metals like gold and copper; they also help fund charities and get handsets into the developing world.

In a perfect world, everyone would recycle their mobile phones, preferably through our programs, and this problem would simply go away. But recycling is a learned behavior, and it will probably be some time before everyone learns to apply it to used consumer electronics, not just paper, glass, and cans. We recognize that the motivation to recycle is elusive for most people, so we are always trying to figure out how to motivate them to do it. We developed RIPMobile.com to get the public to do the right thing by making the process feel like consuming rather than recycling.

What long and winding road led you to your current position?

I was always very inquisitive and eager to learn new things. I was exposed to international travel at an early age, and I think the ability to see situations from other cultures’ perspectives made me a pretty flexible problem-solver. As I started to develop some environmental consciousness — a lot of that was after college — I gravitated to trying to solve problems that were large and universal in scope.

If you are willing to work hard and smart in a disciplined manner, why not take on big-picture issues and see if you can change the world? I know that sounds ambitious, perhaps even naive or arrogant, but it is fun, and the risk of failure, given the mess we are in, isn’t very intimidating.

When I saw the potential to improve the lives of hundreds of thousands of people in Latin America, to protect the environment from hundreds of tons of toxic waste, and to fund charities in the process, I knew I had to give it a go.

Who’s the biggest pain in the ass you have to deal with?

The phone companies and handset manufacturers, which are suffering a terminal case of groupthink. They do an amazing job of plodding along, resisting change, and implementing non-sustainable solutions; they want nothing to do with solving the problems they clearly had a hand in creating. The cutthroat competitiveness is so ingrained. They often seem more comfortable (programmed, even) trying to kill you or steal your ideas than simply cooperating and helping solve problems they need to solve anyway.

Who’s nicer than you would expect?

The consistent glimmer of hope is the involvement of individuals and charities. Every day we receive hundreds of packages full of old phones and accessories. These people took valuable time out of their lives to send in their phones — whatever their motivation (environmental, charitable, cashing in on valuable assets). I see each of these packages as an act of kindness and individual responsibility. In the broader sense, the ability of people to band together and make a difference at the grassroots level is very powerful, effective, democratic, and encouraging.

Where were you born? Where do you live now?

I was born in Cleveland and now live in Atlanta, by way of Miami, Washington, D.C., California, Munich, Germany, Phoenix …

What has been the worst moment in your professional life to date?

Actually, the first two years of running CollectiveGood were the hardest, scariest, and most grueling part of my career. We were positive we had developed a surefire recipe for saving the world from mobile-phone waste and bridging the digital divide. As it turns out, we were right and have set the industry in motion. But for several business quarters in a row, we were looking bankruptcy right in the eye.

It wasn’t worth planning more than 30 days ahead for almost two years, death seemed so imminent. It was a very trying period psychologically, and I was pretty sure I had destroyed my career right out of grad school — and my marriage too.

Like Nietzsche said: “That which doesn’t kill us makes us stronger.” I came out of it stronger as a person and better as an entrepreneur — and with a stronger marriage, too.

What’s been the best?

Certainly the best part is having survived all of that and still being here, loving my job, and relishing the fulfilling sense that we invented what we do, fought hard to do it our way, and get an enormous amount done every day. I think we all feel very privileged to love our jobs and see that what we do has a very real, positive impact on the world around us.

What environmental offense has infuriated you the most?

People who use the guise of environmentalism to sell or pitch products but don’t really mean it irritate the hell out of me. At its root, it’s a lie. There are a lot of companies that copy what we do, but they cut corners by asking for only the new and valuable phones (the oldest and least valuable pose the greatest environmental threat) and don’t want the batteries or chargers, which are also full of toxic waste. They present themselves as environmentalists but actually perpetuate and accelerate the problem, and profit greatly from that strategy.

Who is your environmental hero?

Not so much a person as a place: My experience living in Germany and sorting trash into four streams of recyclables (glass, paper, metal, and compost) — just like everyone else had to — was pretty formative. I realized how much a society can get done if we all pull together and everyone participates. The U.S. had all kinds of recycling programs in place during WWII because we needed to do that to win the war. It is sad that once we returned to peacetime, it all became trash again. We didn’t learn much from that experience.

For the pragmatic environmentalist, what should be the focus — political action designed to change policy, or individual action designed to change lifestyle?

I see leveraging grassroots activism as the most powerful cultural tool out there, with the best potential to quickly change lifestyles and environmental impact. Look at the power a group like MoveOn has — how quickly they act to empower people to change something they don’t like. That is a political example, but why can’t that same technology and strategy be used in an environmental context?

What’s your environmental vice?

I love sports cars and drive fast. I feel guilty about the big smile I get on my face that way, I really do. I am happy to see that the new hybrid cars are generally faster than conventional gas-powered cars, and I’m looking forward to watching hybrids evolve to take over the gas-guzzler era. The environmental and national-security benefits of declaring war on oil will be huge.

What are you reading these days?

I have been reading books about the start of aviation, trying to learn more about the planes my grandfather flew when he was young. He was one of the very first airmail pilots and was forced to quit flying because the planes crashed all the time. Did you know 31 of the first 40 airmail pilots crashed and died in the first six years of service? Lucky for me, my grandmother made him choose between her and the plane!

What’s your favorite meal?

I always love good sushi; it is so simple and tasty. That and kung pao chicken with broccoli — I couldn’t live without that one.

Which stereotype about environmentalists most fits you?

I spend a lot of time trying to pick up little pieces of trash to recycle them. It makes me feel good.

What’s your favorite place or ecosystem?

The most beautiful and inspiring place I have ever been is the Havasupai Indian Reservation in the Grand Canyon. It is a fusion of the lushness of Hawaii and the stark ruggedness of the canyon. That it is difficult to get to and a bit of a secret adds to the pleasure of being there, because you don’t see many people and feel like you have it all to yourself.

What’s one thing the environmental movement is doing particularly well?

Learning to make the business case for environmentalism through sustainable business practices and efficiencies. I think the fact that GE has started to talk about it indicates a tidal shift.

What’s one thing the environmental movement is doing badly, and how could it be done better?

One thing the environmental community needs to do better is be less confrontational and more focused on showing businesses the benefits of reforming. Of course, that requires someone on the other side of the table to be listening and be interested in change. The new generations of engineers, M.B.A.s, and management in general tend to be more open to the fact that change is not only a constant but an opportunity to improve constantly.

If you could institute by fiat one environmental reform, what would it be?

It would be profound if we were all responsible for processing our own waste for a week — I mean our garbage as well as our recyclables. If we all realized how much waste we create and how messy our consumerism really is, people would be pretty shocked and behavior would change quickly.

What was your favorite band when you were 18? How about now?

I listened to a lot of Rush when I was 18, and now I listen to a lot of jam-band stuff. It is great to see bands like String Cheese Incident and MOE creating music that is based on improvisation; it gives the music a life of its own, and that is very engaging.

What’s your favorite TV show? Movie?

I am absolutely sucked into 24, and I like watching The West Wing because of the big issues it confronts. The movie that has touched me most is called The Journey (by Eric Saperston); it has changed a lot of people’s lives.

What are you happy about right now?

I am happy spending time with my family, watching my 2-year-old son learn and grow. We have another one (sex unknown) due shortly, and the sense of wonder through the whole process is so powerful. It is a remarkable series of miracles that play out before your eyes — mesmerizing.

If you could have every InterActivist reader do one thing, what would it be?

Of course, I would want everyone to recycle their old cell phones and accessories, preferably through either RIPMobile.com or CollectiveGood.com, and get their friends to do it too. It is a universal problem, but one that is free and easy to solve.

Call Collect

Seth Heine, CollectiveGood.

So I know what bands you like and the ages of your children, but I still have no idea what actually happens to old cell phones when they are properly disposed of. Inquiring minds want to know!    — Wendy James, Burbank, Calif.

About half of the phones we collect go into reuse after testing and refurbishment processes. The other half (and all of the accessories) go through materials reclamation; they are ground up and melted down, then run through a series of chemical processes to separate out the various metals (gold, silver, copper, zinc, lead, mercury, etc.). This process also involves “thermal reclamation” of the plastics, which means they are burned to generate the heat required for the metals reclamation, but the smoke output is filtered so it doesn’t impact the environment. We use a company in Belgium for these processes in order to make sure that they are performed to the highest standards in the world, and because of the vendors we use, and the careful processes we have in place, we are the only company in this business to be recognized as being in compliance with E.U. standards.

What do you think of biodegradable plastics (like those made from corn) for use in the production of electronics, such as cell phones?    — Sarah W., Fargo, N.D.

I read about those faceplates that have flower seeds in them with a sense of wonder — it is very creative. Unfortunately, it doesn’t solve the problem of all of the toxins in the phones at all; in fact, if the plastic breaks down so easily, it probably introduces the toxins into the environment faster.

I use my phone for everything and would worry about identity theft when I recycle my old phone. What do you do to keep that information safe before you resell the phones?    — Patricia Cavuoto, New York, N.Y.

The short answer is that we have to ask people to treat their phones like a computer and make sure there is nothing in it they don’t want to share. We provide information on our website on how to contact the manufacturers, or you can learn how to do it through your owner’s manual.

With the increasing complexity and all-in-one capabilities of phones, we are running into all sorts of other issues too, like emails, text threads, pictures, videos, etc. The software on the phones is always changed out before the phones go into reuse overseas, but not all of the phones we put into reuse are exported, so that’s not a fail-safe plan. We are constantly taking on this task and increasing our capabilities in this area, but the exponential growth in new phone technology is outpacing us, so we have to rely on the owner of the phone to clean it out before sending it to us.

How does a company from Atlanta make an impact in improving the lives of hundreds of thousands of people in Latin America?    — Heather Reickard, Miami, Fla.

The phones we refurbish really do improve the quality of life in and the economies of the countries that receive them. People are always surprised to learn that these phones really do bridge the “digital divide.” For many in Latin America, these recycled phones are the first IT [information technology] device they’ve owned. They use the phones for texting and accessing the internet, not for voice calls. The real value is that we have helped people connect to one another by giving them access to technology that otherwise they might not get.

What steps are you taking to assure proper disposal of nonworking phones in Latin American countries where you send phones, and are you working with them to develop recycling programs? In addition, when you receive nonworking phones as part of your program, what are you doing with the plastic?    — Tanya Cowperthwaite, Reston, Va.

Our policy is to not export any phones that are not in working condition, as essentially that would be exporting toxic waste to the developing world. It is also important to keep in mind that mobile phones will be reused multiple times there (as hand-me-downs), so they serve people for several years, rather than the artificially short life cycle of 18 months here in the U.S. You are right that there is an inadequate reclamation system in Latin America at the moment.

Through our relationship with Earthworks and the Recycle My Cell Phone program, we have been working to set up collection systems based on the precious metals content in the phones. The Recycle My Cell Phone program has shown that this is an economically viable way to collect and recycle the mobile phones at the end of their life cycles. Earthworks has clearly demonstrated that it is about 400 percent more efficient to mine gold and other metals from the phones than it is to get them out of the most efficient mines in the world — that is a staggering and encouraging statistic! By showing major companies that they can make more money — and protect the environment in the process — by further developing electronics recycling in general, we hope to fundamentally change the problem into an opportunity that works better for everyone.

The plastics are recycled through a system called “thermal recycling,” which really means they are burned to heat the ground-up phones for recycling. Though the smoke is filtered and passes the high environmental standards of the E.U., we are always trying to find a way that is more oriented toward reuse. The plastics from electronics in general are hard to recycle, because they have a lot of flame retardants in them.

How can awareness be raised regarding cell-phone recycling?    — Chris Northrop, Vernon, Conn.

Awareness is the single biggest challenge we face — we find that most people are willing to recycle their phones through our programs if they know about us. By making it free, easy, and fun — heck, we’ll even pay you for the phones — we have removed the biggest obstacles, but that doesn’t matter much if people simply don’t know about it. Recycling is a learned behavior, so you have to be exposed to the idea; the larger problem is that no one has the budget to market this idea to 175 million wireless customers. There is no federal law mandating the recycling of these phones, even though the U.S. EPA’s own studies clearly show that the phones need to be classified as hazardous waste once they hit the landfill.

One piece of good news is that most people do not throw away their old phones; they just keep them. That gives us the opportunity to reach people and capture the phones before they hit the landfills by the hundreds of millions (there are about 550 million used mobile phones out there in the U.S. alone and more than a billion at the global level), so please tell your friends and colleagues about us!

Not being a cell-phone user/owner yet, who are the most responsible companies?    — Mary Kay Hennessey, Fayetteville, N.C.

The only wireless carrier that I can recommend for their social and environmental responsibility is Working Assets. All of the other carriers are actually making this problem worse by disabling handsets, forcing people to throw away perfectly functional phones that can work on most networks.

Which types of phones are less damaging post-consumer (obviously no camera phones)?    — Jared Webb, Rocky Mount, Va.

Actually, camera phones wouldn’t be worse than any others, really. In another year or so, most mobile phones will be made with lead-free solder, and most of the other toxic materials will have been removed too — another initiative coming out of Europe. This doesn’t solve the 550-million-phone backlog but at least this issue isn’t continuing to grow forever.

The safest phone for the environment is one that has been recycled. Ideally, you would buy a phone that will last you for years and then recycle it, but with the manufacturers locking phones and cool new features constantly being developed, that is hard to do.

When starting a new business, what do you look for in goals and a successful business model? As president, have you been forced to make decisions favoring growth over “youthful ideals”?    — Jared Webb, Rocky Mount, Va.

One hard but simple lesson in all of this is that you have to figure out how to be profitable, as fast as possible. Some people look at profits like they are evil or ill-gained, but the fact is that unless you can be self-sufficient and finance your own growth, you will be under constant pressure to cut corners, sell out your ideals for investment capital, etc. One great thing about being cash-flow positive is that you can make decisions about ideals vs. profits without having to sacrifice the ideals that motivated you to get started in the first place. For example, we get approached by businesses in China daily, wanting to buy whatever they can from us for “recycling.” The problem is that I know they have no real environmental controls in place; they have such a terrible environmental and human-rights record that I wouldn’t be able to sleep well at night if I did business there just to make more money.

You also have to figure out how to target a market that really will either pay a little extra or go a little out of their way to buy your product or services over other offerings. Even though people say they’ll pay more to support your product or services because you are socially/environmentally responsible, most really won’t. Everyone wants Wal-Mart pricing and the most socially responsible behavior too, but the fact is that those two don’t line up very well.

If a business were to get with the times and convert to a triple bottom line, what would be the most effective way to attract and engage consumers, even while its prices don’t remain competitive?    — Erin Frost, Seattle, Wash.

Although I do believe in the triple bottom line, and I agree that it simply costs more to be socially and environmentally responsible, I don’t agree that it makes you uncompetitive on pricing. In fact, the word “competitive” is exactly the point — you need to shift the comparison to one of value provided and sustainability. Most people grasp that the cheapest, ugliest solution is not the best, and you build from there.

Are there ill health effects that result from using cell phones?    — Karen Wilhelmsen, Tucson, Ariz.

You don’t have to worry about the lead, cadmium, mercury, and arsenic in phones rubbing off on you; that isn’t a threat at all. However, several studies here and abroad have shown that radio waves do create tumors in the body, often in the head, since that’s where most people use their phones. What they haven’t clearly demonstrated is whether the tumors that develop are actually harmful, but it doesn’t sound good to me, which is why I always use a hands-free kit, hoping this at least keeps my head safer.

I am working on a government-run cell-phone recycling program in a small Michigan county. I was working with an organization that recently lost its contact to take the cell phones, so now I am beginning to sit on a mountain of them. Who do I contact to recycle them? It would be great to make a little money off of them to help my education budget.    — Carey Pauquette-Schalm, Mt. Pleasant, Mich.

CollectiveGood offers our free mobile-phone recycling programs to governments, charities, and companies alike. Basically, if you are willing to help collect them, we are willing to buy them and make sure that they are recycled to the highest standards in the industry. I always point out that it makes good sense to get paid to keep toxic waste out of your landfills.

What is CollectiveGood doing in California? Are you working with any wireless retailers there?    — Jenna Adams, Laredo, Calif.

Interestingly, we were the only company that I know of in this business that came out in support of the state recycling law (it goes into effect July 2006), knowing that this would help drive the issue on the national scale. (Meanwhile, the wireless industry spent millions of dollars fighting the phone recycling law for this reason.)

We mostly rely on our website to help people out there collect phones, whether they are individuals, companies, or charities. We work with a lot of charities in California, from the Sierra Club to local domestic violence shelters, and we are in every Staples office supply store in the country, so most everyone has easy access to our services. We are starting to work with some retailers at the national level with the RIPMobile service too. The fact is that everyone in the whole country can recycle phones with us for free, whether it’s at a Staples store or using our free postage-paid labels via the Recycle My Cell Phone program.